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Rule Triggered Position Presets

Gareth Clough

Hi all, 

Not sure whether this is possible already and I just haven't found it?

Something that would be useful for having a show programmed for Low Trim and High Trim venues, to have the ability to change Axis Position Presets heights by being rule driven.  

For example, having an axis "Storage" preset position set at 30' normally, then activating a digital output bit, this then triggers a rule that changes "Storage" preset position to 25'. 

 

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Comments

3 comments

Date Votes
  • Mike Rock

    I poked around the GUI I'm in front of (4.5) and couldn't find a way to change position presets outside of the presets editor. I struck out on a custom command but that could be a lack of knowledge on my end. Best I could offer is to use an If statement while cueing but that wouldn't help while running moves.

    For example If low trim show bit is on then axis move to LT Storage Else Storage.

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  • Jeronimo Carbi

    Good afternoon Gareth,
    Are you familiar with the feature in Navigator that allows you to change the operation mode of the Axis Device to "File" mode?


    When programming a touring show, or rep theater, we share with our users that Navigator has the feature set to allow the programmer to choose between Device, Local and File mode.
    This feature was designed to easily change venues or shows and be able to modify parameters such as Soft Limits, Position Presets and Rules.
    When loading a new showfile using "File Mode", the showfile will allow the user to synchronize the individual device configurations using the showfile data. For example, if you were touring and had 5 trims, you would have 5 showfiles. Depending on venue trim height, you would load the appropriate showfile and "push" those parameters to the axes.
    Your showfiles could be named:

    • 60' Trim Show
    • 57' Trim Show
    • 55' Trim Show
    • 50' Trim Show
    • 47' Trim Show

    The user would then choose what would be syncronized. For example, the axis devices would be placed in "File mode", while keeping the player in "Device Mode". This means that your cues will always work and track changes across all showfiles, regardless of trim, and would always send the axis to your "Storage" trim (P.Set 1 for example). But since your Axis configuration has been updated, that cue would run to a different height depending on the showfile loaded.
    The user can mix between Device and File Mode. It is not mandatory to have them all be the same.

    I am not going to lie. It can get complicated and it is one of the more complex topics that we teach in class.
    But if it is implemented correctly and documented, it will make it a lot easier to tour with multiple trims. 

    I am interested to understand if what you would like to accomplish via a rule and and a Digital Out is something that we can't accomplish via File mode behaviour or if its an additional new feature building upon something that we already do.

    Here is a screenshot of the Configuration menu that allows you to choose the operational mode for the device:

    Happy to chat more and help, thank you for sharing your request with us!

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  • Jason Shupe (personal)
    • Edited
    Hi Gareth,

    No, what you've described doesn't exist in Nav as you've described it. However, this is a problem that can be solved a couple of different ways, depending on the specifics of the show.

    Before you get too deep into File Mode (because, let's be honest, That Way Be Dragons*), I think it would help us to know more about why you want to do this & what kind of show you're on.  The problem you're trying to solve can be addressed several different ways in Nav. Which way we would recommend has a lot to do with the specifics of your show/situation.

    If you're on a tour, and you're going to have a different value in every city for Out/Storage/High Trim/Low Trim, etc. presets, then I'd point you towards using the Axis Preset Matrix. It's a one stop shop for changing all of your axis position presets. In fact, the Axis Preset Matrix was built specifically for some of the first roadies who took Nav out on tour to solve exactly this problem. Alternatively, some tour programmer/operators just make different presets for each city they stop in ("High Trim-LA", "High Trim-Vegas",etc). This is more labor intensive, but it can paint a very clear picture as to what venues you did what in, which can be helpful to future you.
     
    On the other hand, if you really do just have two different values that you want to toggle between and you want it to toggle based on a DO register, then I'd look at solving the problem in cueing, using If & Else Blocks (like Mike suggested):

    In this case, I'd also consider adding a R+ limit to the axis at 25.1' that turns on whenever the DO is on.
     
    I can definitely see situations where this is the right approach, but it isn't a perfect solution - for example in the Custom Move window you can still pick the High Storage preset and try to send the piece there (that's why I suggest the R+ limit), but if you're looking at trying to solve this as a cueing problem, this is probably how I would tackle it.

    If you're going to use this lots of places in your show, I'd make a library block out of it (Again- that's literally what they were created for). Then just call the library block whenever you need to send the piece to storage and the library block will implement the correct logic every time, without you having to re-create the logic every time. If you're feeling fancy, you can even parameterize the A/V/Ds of the move in the library block so that you can specify them each time you call the library block:
     
     
    FWIW, your proposed solution is interesting, but would be tricky to implement in Nav because of how the Axis & Player devices store position presets. Ever update the value of an Axis Preset Position for a large show and then sit there while your GUI shows you the LPWOD while the changes are pushed to all the pertinent devices? Now imagine that happening every time you toggle a DO. Now set that DO to Blink and watch your day get ruined :/
     
    Great question, BTW. I love it when there is more than one right answer and the nuance of the situation makes a difference.
     
    Cheers,
    -J

    *File mode is a great tool, but seriously, use it carefully. It can be counterintuitive at first and the consequences can be severe. Just about the only time I take a show or device out of Server mode is when I need to edit the properties of a device that I'm not currently connect to. As with all things - make sure you have your CCM running first.
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